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Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016

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101 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:00 am

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I've not had a chance to properly rewatch in full but I share the same view as the one above. What baffles me the most is that we visibly tired against the US, and yet Sampson not only repeated the tactics for Germany, with the same personnel bar two changed of which one was forced on him, but also failed to act when we inevitably began tiring for the second time.

I can understand going about US the way we did because we couldn't have known how physically prepared we were to carry out a game plan like that until we had a go at doing it. But surely seeing it unravel towards the end was something we should have learnt from and carried forward when deciding how to go about Germany. If he was set on repeating the pressing and the personnel then that left only the substitutions to counter tiredness.

His first was Carney for Greenwood in the 70th minute
Germany scored in the 75th minute or there abouts - it wasn't offside
Then the OG happened almost immediately afterwards in the 76th minute
Stoney for Flaherty 79'
German penalty 82'
Kirby for Duggan 82'
Davison for Nobbs 83'

Germany made four subs, and all of them happened before our first.

102 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:06 pm

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He continued: ... At the other end we were far more threatening. We scored a good goal off a set piece so I’m pleased with that and I’m pleased for Toni as well.

http://www.thefa.com/news/england/womens/2016/mar/shebelieves-cup-germany-nashville-mark-sampson-fara-williams#c6CEqxQqYFdRLZHq.99
2 shots on target against the US. 3 shots on target against Germany = far more threatening. One shot improvement but because that one extra shot was a goal he is satisfied? I might have given him that if the extra shot had provided a win. It didn't even provide a draw.

103 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:50 pm

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^ I see he is still going with the poor officiating defence of the Germany game. Does he not realise how daft he looks saying we were hard done by with the penalty when in the very same game Germany had a perfectly legitimate goal ruled out. Take away the pen goal and give them their 'offside' goal instead and you still get a 2-1 defeat. You can't pick and choose which decisions you think should be reversed just to turn a result in your favour. It's all or nothing. And since the game doesn't allow for reversals I would much rather he said nothing.

104 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:44 am

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Guest wrote:I've not had a chance to properly rewatch in full but I share the same view as the one above. What baffles me the most is that we visibly tired against the US, and yet Sampson not only repeated the tactics for Germany, with the same personnel bar two changed of which one was forced on him, but also failed to act when we inevitably began tiring for the second time.

I can understand going about US the way we did because we couldn't have known how physically prepared we were to carry out a game plan like that until we had a go at doing it. But surely seeing it unravel towards the end was something we should have learnt from and carried forward when deciding how to go about Germany. If he was set on repeating the pressing and the personnel then that left only the substitutions to counter tiredness.

His first was Carney for Greenwood in the 70th minute
Germany scored in the 75th minute or there abouts - it wasn't offside
Then the OG happened almost immediately afterwards in the 76th minute
Stoney for Flaherty 79'
German penalty 82'
Kirby for Duggan 82'
Davison for Nobbs 83'

Germany made four subs, and all of them happened before our first.
I make that to be one change just minutes before Germany finally get through which you could guess was done for the sake of freshening up. If we were still winning at that point then he wasn’t reacting to the scoreline changing for example. But both of those players and even Stokes who moved to LB as part of the switch all started against the US. So legs weren’t as fresh as they could have been. And it came too late anyway because it all went to pot minutes after.

He said Flaherty coming off was predetermined but if that's the case why was it left until there were only 10 minutes to go. You’re supposed to put fresh legs on before the ones out there get tired. 10 minutes left is too late to get the most out of bothering. And I don’t even think Flaherty was struggling anyway.

Kirby was with the 4th official waiting to come on as the penalty was being given, so her sub wasn’t reactive to us having gone 2-1 down, but it was quite possibly still reactive to the scoreline having become 1-1.

Davison coming on was an oh dear it’s gone tits up substitution.

105 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:38 pm

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If you listen to his prematch comments he was talking about wanting to keep it tight and then maybe throwing everything at them at the end if necessary. He does this more than anything else let’s try and not get beaten thing a lot. And even when chasing a game he won’t go on the attack if there is still enough time left for the opposition to exploit our now pushing forward approach to just extend their lead even further. I think us getting the first goal against Germany was the worst way this game could have played out because I honestly don’t think we are sent onto pitches expecting that to happen.

I’m never confident of us seeing out a game against anybody decent. Whether we are winning or drawing he seems to favour the ‘if it isn’t broke don’t fix it’ way of things. Rather than make substitutions to help maintain a scoreline he will stick with what got us that scoreline in the first place.

106 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:13 pm

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If you listen to his prematch comments he was talking about wanting to keep it tight and then maybe throwing everything at them at the end if necessary.
I think this game showed his lack of experience. I actually don't think that any of his subs were a reaction they were all preplanned. He wasn't dynamic at all in his managing of this game, if he was he would have brought on fresh legs way before he did instead of sticking to a game plan that was quickly going to hell with Germany gaining momentum twenty minutes into the second half. I think that changing a CB without being forced to or having a real comfortable lead is a mistake at any level in that it changes the dynamic in the back which in this game lead to some pretty bad defending at times. If he didn't think that Flaherty could have withstood the whole second game he should have played Bassett or Stoney from the beginning. I lay this defeat squarely on the shoulders of Sampson he managed the game terribly he's lucky about the "questionable' pk happening or he would have had some tough questions on his terrible game management/plan.

107 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:16 pm

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Bardsley, A.Scott, Houghton(c), Stoney, Rafferty, Williams, Nobbs, Chapman, Stokes, J.Scott, Duggan

108 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:36 pm

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He said he was hopeful that Taylor's knock which kept her out of the Germany match wouldn't keep her out against France as well. It would be interesting to know if she isn't playing tonight because it never cleared up or if he just liked what he saw against Germany and repeated it. Either way I find it interesting that his fallback on both occasions was not to swap her for another forward.

Stoney getting a start is interesting as well. I hope it doesn't point towards us playing deep.

109 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:46 pm

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France are lining up with Gérard, Houara, Delannoy (c), Georges, Majri, Thomis, Hamraoui, Abily, Lavogez, Necib, Delie

110 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:09 pm

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It's a good job Thomis can't finish or that would have been 1-0 in the first 10 minutes.

111 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:13 pm

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It's a good job Thomis can't finish or that would have been 2-0 in the first 12 minutes.

112 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:01 pm

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Our first half was about as pretty as the pitch. I don't have a single positive. It was easily the most uncomfortable we've looked this whole tournament, which is pretty damning when you think this XI should be three games well practiced by now.

113 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:34 am

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That was a very poor showing by England and I'm not going to watch it again to see what I missed the first time because I'll probably come out more disappointed. The only praise I have is for France I thought that their defence in the second half especially their secondhand goalie and young centre back gave a good account of themselves and even though I'm sure Renard and Henry were missed they did an excellent job and maintained a clean sheet. Our defence again wasn't that great and if France could actually score it wouldn't have ended nil nil. I was very disappointed in England. All they have shown in this tournament is that they can press, be frantic on the ball, and resort to long ball set ups.

114 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:05 am

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Paul Carr ‏@PCarrESPN 6m6 minutes ago
#USWNT completed 62% of passes tonight, compared to 66% in WWC semis. 75% vs ENG last week, 72% vs FRA.

Interesting stat. Even with England's disrupted pressing game the USA still was able to complete more passes against them than against Germany and France.

115 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:12 am

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I think each person's view on the success of this tournament will depend largely, if not wholly, on their definition of 'compete'. It's a subjective measurement. For the sake of having us all singing from the same hymn sheet we should be going by the definition of Sampson and the team.

Prior to the tournament he said we were capable of winning games like these and intended to win the whole thing. His post-tournament comments, after seeing how it actually went for us, are full of talk about how we are only on our way to becoming capable of winning games and competitions like these. By his own admission we did not compete based on his pre-tournament definition of what that means. And furthermore, he has now changed his definition in light us having not won a game nevermind the whole thing to make out that we still did compete.

116 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:44 pm

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Prior to the tournament he said we were capable of winning games like these and intended to win the whole thing. His post-tournament comments, after seeing how it actually went for us, are full of talk about how we are only on our way to becoming capable of winning games and competitions like these. By his own admission we did not compete based on his pre-tournament definition of what that means. And furthermore, he has now changed his definition in light us having not won a game nevermind the whole thing to make out that we still did compete.

I think that the girls did a fine job doing what the manager told them to and it was ultimately the manager who let the team down. One of the manager's job is to manage expectation of his team to the fans. A winning mentality is good and the team should have gone into this tournament thinking that they could compete. What I think was the most detrimental was Sampson's attitude and perspective going into this tournament. He can change his tune after the fact but his team ultimately failed according to his unattainable expectations for them. This was a friendly tournament he should have used it more wisely in giving more players playing time (like all of the other countries), worked on some sort of attack even if it lead to an odd goal against us instead of running a core of 7 to 8 players into the ground with his high intensity pressing game.

"We've got a real clear objective... we're here to win it, to be as difficult as we can for our opponents and to make the games a living nightmare for them. We believe that if we get things right, we can cause some upsets".
He got one thing right, they were a living nightmare to the opponents by kicking and fouling them right, left and center. He didn't cause any upsets (he didn't even win one game) and while they barely missed the wooden spoon, as a fan I'd rather them have put in performances like France than the ones they did. France actually went toe to toe with each country, England went kicking shins to tripping feet of each country.

117 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:43 pm

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Guest wrote:This was a friendly tournament he should have used it more wisely in giving more players playing time (like all of the other countries), worked on some sort of attack even if it lead to an odd goal against us instead of running a core of 7 to 8 players into the ground with his high intensity pressing game.
I'm one of those who has been desperate to see us find some line-up stability, just to see if that would finally iron out some of our persistent kinks. But it was clear before this tournament started that it wasn't going to be the opportune moment to do this as the schedule was too intense to field the same players each time with the same high energy gameplan. I would therefore have understood if he had continued with the switching of personnel. Our performances using this system declined as we went on. So either we got worse the more we practiced the personnel and tactics (not likely) or we just weren't physically able to keep it up.

Above all else I find it pretty disappointing, that after all of the chopping and changing we've seen which was presumably what helped him to decide on the 11 players to finally settle on, the end product is a side which looks no more capable of scoring than what we had when heavily rotating.

118 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:04 pm

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Above all else I find it pretty disappointing, that after all of the chopping and changing we've seen which was presumably what helped him to decide on the 11 players to finally settle on, the end product is a side which looks no more capable of scoring than what we had when heavily rotating.

Before the world cup there was a stat going around that showed Sampson preferred and played the same players over and over again in the world cup qualifiers and limited friendlies. IIRC it was very similar to the starting line-up in this tournament. It was only in the world cup and the China tournament in which he started to chop and change his line-ups. It appears that he has gone back to his previous mind-set along with bringing Stokes back in.

119 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:42 am

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Guest wrote:Before the world cup there was a stat going around that showed Sampson preferred and played the same players over and over again in the world cup qualifiers and limited friendlies. IIRC it was very similar to the starting line-up in this tournament. It was only in the world cup and the China tournament in which he started to chop and change his line-ups. It appears that he has gone back to his previous mind-set along with bringing Stokes back in.
Are you referring to this: http://fyfawsl.tumblr.com/post/103731792446/player-minutes-and-appearances-during-sampsons ? There was a a very clear breakaway XI in the first year, even with some of those making it up having missed games through injury. I don't think the blog mods ever compiled a list for 2015 onward though so it's harder to track beyond that first year. Looking at that XI, it is pretty similar to what we saw in this tournament. I hadn't realised until now.

120 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:49 pm

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Yes. It seems he does have favourites just like Powell did and he's convinced that they will get better. I have some doubts but we shall see. It appears that England will be in the Shebelieves Cup for the next few years so we'll see next year if this core group has become any better. If they are still have only one or two shots on goal and aren't scoring from open play, winning the Euros will be a hard task unless they have a VERY favourable pathway to the finals

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2016/03/10/Events-and-Attractions/SheBelieves-Cup.aspx

121 Re: Four Nation Tournament in the USA March 2016 on Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:29 pm

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Stats from the tournament,

Complied from the six games:
ENG USA GER FRA
Shots 20 25 32 28
Shots on Goal 5 12 15 10
Fouls 40 32 31 22

Individual Eng games:
Eng/USA Eng/Ger Eng/Fra
Shots 6/7 6/14 8/13
Shots on Goal 2/3 2/6 1/4
Fouls 16/14 13/11 5/11

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